So this is basically what Bush Sr. said in a documentary in 1998. What's really amazing is how Cheney managed to forget all of this stuff by 2003. Or did he really think 9/11 really changed everything, even the way the middle east works? And how is it Cheney can understand the dynamics of Iraq, presumably with a good understanding of the religious differences, yet Cheney didn't bother to tell Bush any of the details. http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/12/8/215257/257

And he ended with a startling admission, that even when a war costs relatively few lives compared to past wars, "...but for the 146 Americans killed in action and their families it wasn't a cheap war." Then the most shockingly rational statement of all, "...how many additional dead Americans was Saddam worth. In our judgement it was not very many and I think we got it right."

Unfortunately, you only got it right once.

And, then came 11 September, which change the calculus.

General Colin Powell was saying the same thing, as the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, justifying why we had to stop Desert Storm without finishing the job. Don't forget to slam him too. Why be selective?

Dennis -- A lot of people deserved to be slammed, but only one is the Vice President of the United States of America.

And then came 9/11? Tim, according to public statements by George Bush, Condoleeza Rice, and Don Rumsfeld, there was never an equation between 9/11 and Saddam Hussein. Granted, these statements were made in response to direct questions, rather than the innuendo they loosened on the U.S. public in the run up to the invasion. It's not all just one big war.

The cost of the war in terms of lives and money would be smaller if we had attacked Iraq then.

All of this 20/20 hindsight is just wonderful. Truthfully, how many of you actually believed we needed to attack Iraq in 1994? As I recall, at the time, everyone was concerned about the fighting door to door in the streets and how difficult it would be with unacceptable American loss of life. We all hoped Saddam would back off and comply with international requirements and UN resolutions. Well he didn't and 9-11 happened and so things changed. Let's try to be a little more honest here. I personally like the Vice President and think he is doing fine.

Dennis, let's get real here. Nothing changed in Iraq before, during and after 9/11 till we invaded. Both Powell and Condoleeza have similar video saying Saddam was boxed in and not a threat (see Fahrenheit 9/11. I think it was either late 90's or 2000). Saddam also was complying with inspectors and destroyed all long range missiles he was developing a couple days before we invaded.

The reality in Iraq, regardless of 9/11, is that Iraq would be a mess is we invaded and he knew it; He just didn't care anymore. He had a new agenda that involved regulating oil and profit. Nothing more. The whole 'War against Terror' is a red herring to further justify invasion. That much is obvious in pre- and hindsight.

Cheney doing a fine job? Yeah, a fine job of indebting the country to decades of financial, political and philosophical turmoil. Cheney is a proven liar by his own statements; fine job as a liar, but nothing else.

Dennis, Saddam didn't cause 9/11, and you're the only one in this country who likes Cheney mind you.
This just proves that Cheney follows his special interests when making decisions and not rational thought or what is good for the countries well being.

I take some solace in the fact that our leaders weren't ignorant. Apparently they had the right information. So we don't have to replace large parts of our intelligence or infrastructure. This is much easier to fix and will change with the next election -- no matter which party wins.

Looks like Ole Cheney has been caught with his britches around his ankles!! Those idiots shoulda known that every thing they say in this day and age is recorded for posterity....but does it keep them from lying? Naw..

This only makes the slaughter of the US soldiers even harder to except. THEY KNEW the problems the troops would encounter, and STILL the White House ALTERED existing military plans for Iraq invasion so that the new plan put troops in GREATER DANGER!!!!!!!!

Dennis, I would suggest that the proper approach if after 9/11 we had fresh concerns about Saddam would be to insist that he allow weapons inspectors back in.

The Bush logic:
1. Bush: Saddam, let inspectors in or we attack
2. Saddam: Okay (with reluctance)
3. Bush: too bad, we're going to invade anyway. All UN inspectors please leave.
4. Bush (to public): I had to invade, I was concerned he might have weapons. How was I supposed to know?

What signal does this send to OTHER countries like Iran or N. Korea to cooperate? This single instance of betrayal by President Bush will damage American bargaining power for decades to come.

Military madness
Is killing our country
So much sadness
Comes over me.

..and this time the invasion cost one million lives and two million refugees. This diversion also helped the perpetrator of 9/11 escape!
Wow, what a fiasco..and that is being polite.

Some far-out viewpoints... topped off with proported claims of profiteering at the highest levels of our Government. I don't believe any of it, if they wanted personal financial gain they would have stayed in private business and made money without any accountability. History may eventually show that they were on the right track in Iraq, although it still has a ways to go and they will be out of office before their success is recognized. We have not been attacked again since 9-11 so they must be doing something right. Doesn't that count for anyting? If they hand over the White House and our country has not been attacked by terrorists, they will have done their jobs and you can join me in thanking Mr. Bush and Mr. Cheney.

Posted by Dennis

How's the weather up there, in Cheneys rectum?

You think making a few million dollars a year compares to a few hundred million a day (thats 3 million barrels of oil/day at about $70 a barrel.)
Where is that oil money going...to Iraqi reconstruction?
Hahahahaha

George Bush was not all that successful in business, unless you count stock fraud (insider trading on Harken stocks). Oh yes, and he tricked the people in Texas into paying for the Stadium for his baseball team.
Other than those moderate successes, he never did as much as break even. Thank G-d Daddy's friends were always there to lend a helping hand.
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We have not been attacked again since 9-11 so they must be doing something right.
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We are attacked every day, and nearly four thousand of our countries best have died...that's more than the 9/11 terrorists killed, and if you think we are safer because we have to take off our shoes at the airport, then you're not thinking at all. There is absolutely nothing preventing a terrorist attack in this country, if a determined terrorist wanted to do some damage.
I am wondering what they are waiting for...Cheney to give the okay?

The saddest fact is that nothing will change for a while. In my country, if this video was shown on a public media, there would be a huge protest in front of our Parliament and there would be enormous political pressure from the opposition. But hey - its America...

Yes, it is sad and true we have lost good servicemen in Iraq. But as one of our General's said, "In war, it is better to have away games instead of home games." If you recall, a cleric has given bin Laden an edict (religious approval) for him to kill 10 million Americans (you knew that right?). So if we were not "over there" they would be coming here...Nuclear Bigtime... Or do you think if we just pull out like we did in Vietnam we would all get to sit around with another 30 years in peace and quiet?
Also when someone resorts to rude, personal attacks, it is usually a reflection of their lack of education and their frustration in not being able to find any facts to support their opinions (eh, azadirachta) and so I guess high schoolers are also free to comment here.

Dennis,
It is not a war, it's an invasion of a nation which never harmed nor threatened to harm our nation.

If you recall, a cleric has given bin Laden an edict (religious approval) for him to kill 10 million Americans (you knew that right?).

A final comment from me on this topic: The fact is, most intelligent people know that President Bush and Vice President Cheney will serve out their terms. They have not violated the Constitution, rules of office or any laws in any provable or impeachable way. Period.
So in the coming months, I predict an even greater outrage directed towards the 110th Congress. They are not doing their jobs, launching over 600 investigations and hearings trying to find "dirt" on the administration. Meanwhile, they went on break without passing needed appropriations bills, leaving our soldiers in Iraq without improved armored vehicles because of the lack of funding. This is congressional malfeasance and it is unacceptable.

Dennis, please explain how losing thousand of troops in Iraq is keeping Bin Laden from dropping a bomb on us here. I'm still waiting for this invisible connection between Saddam and Bin Laden to become apparent. Look at it from the opposite viewpoint: I see us occupying a country for financial reasons (believe it if you will) and killing thousands of innocent people while a group of religious extremists get more and more fired up about us Americans being more or less the equivalent to the antichrist. And since it's not plausible to fight a holy war with whatever reasons you think we're using, the fight can only be predicted to move home. Since I pray that doesn't happen, I can only hope we can get the hell out of there as fast as possible, save whatever face we have left, and save whatever money we have left (if any) to secure our own borders AT HOME.

Okay Sarah, final final comment. We are not defeated in Iraq, emerging reports from independent sources are saying the coalition commands have been successful against Al Qaeda's network in Northern Iraq, Salahuddin, Diyala and Anbar provinces. Also recently, more and more Iraqi tribes and citizens are rejecting Al Qaeda in their homeland and are reporting their activities to authorities. Sarah, we are turning the tide (contrary to the negative editorial news reports we are fed every day from our regular news sources). We are fighting a terrorist network that will continue to exisit with or without Osama bin Laden. We need to fight them where they are, and yes, fortunately, they are not here in the US, yet. We cannot run and hide from this problem. It is not about "saving face" or money...it is protecting our safety, way of life and our national security. We cannot fail in this effort. Rest assured, I am confident that we won't.

Post Script. Please avoid using Michael Moore's movies as the authority for making your points, see: Kevin Leffler's "Shooting Michael Moore" on You Tube, it reveals another side of Moore...

According to the press releases on Leffler's Web site: "We learn that while writing books and shooting films that expose America's inequities and presenting himself as a moral compass, he abused the non-profit status, engaged in questionable tax practices, violated environmental laws, and invested in Halliburton, oil stocks, leading drug companies, and HMO-chains. Additionally, contrary to his public persona, he used and deceived both the 'little people' as well as U.S servicemen, and Flint's populace is still waiting for him to bring promised jobs."

Funny how some claim 911 made the difference yet PNAC wrote a letter to CLinton in 1998 demanding that Saddam be taken out. That was well before 911. And Cheney and Bush have placed many PNAC members in positions in government to see that the invasion happened. Here is the letter:
http://www.newamericancentury.org/iraqclintonletter.htm

Now, why do I not see reporters camped out in front of Cheney's home waiting to thrust a microphone in his face to get his view of his flip-flop? The MSM is certainly laying down on the job, big time.

Dennis posted: "A final comment from me on this topic: The fact is, most intelligent people know that President Bush and Vice President Cheney will serve out their terms. They have not violated the Constitution, rules of office or any laws in any provable or impeachable way. Period."

By wiretapping the phone calls of Americans, in secret, without warrants, the president, through his order, violated the constitution's 4th amendment in letter and spirit. It is an impeachable offense. The only question is whether the congress will allow such an offense to stand or not. If they allow it to stand they should themselves be tossed from office in 2008. America deserves better from those who are supposed to preserve, protect and defend the constitution, the only thing that stands between a tyrannical government and the people.

It would be criminal to ignore domestic threats to the US Constitution and not use national security programs to locate terrorists in our population. This means using intelligence methods - research, tips from the public, surveillance capabilities like wiretapping terrorist phone calls.

Dennis's "the tide is turning now" argument avoids the problem with Cheney's video. The issue is not whether or not we are turning the corner now. The issue is why it has taken 4 years and the lives of 3500 soldiers to even start getting it right.

The Administration invaded Iraq (actually rushed to invade) when it knew (from Cheney's own words in 1994) the problems that would arise if we invaded and THEN it failed for years take steps to avoid those very problems. If Dennis is right and we needed to invade to protect our own security, then the Administration should be severely criticized for not getting it done right from the start and consequently making things immeasurably worse in Iraq. The Administration blew it by not invading with sufficient forces and then criticized all (including Dems) who wanted more troops in the early years. It blew it by denying that there was an insurgency growing (not Sadam dead enders), and blew it by not doing everything possible to restore electricity and infrastructures to avoid a popular uprising. And there are a host of other related issues where the Administration treated Iraq as a pet project for its friends (no-bid contracts, etc) rather than staying focused.

Dennis will likely now come to the Administratio's defense (as a monotone reliable Bush supporter) and say that these were unanticipated problems in war (we have heard that often). But the Cheney video shows that these problems were expected. The bottom line is once started, the Iraq war was too important to screw up, but they screwed it up. The Bush Administration will, therefore, go down in history as one of the most incompetent ever.

Dennis, on the video itself, you have no response.

I think you all missed something very important. Dick Cheney is not the Commander-in-Chief and what ever his views and opinions are, the decision to go to war was made by President Bush. Historically, most vice presidents don't have very much influence in the decisions made by the sitting president. Cheney's job is to support the presidents position or stay silent. He may very well have some influence on President Bush's choices, however, I tire of so many people elevating him to a position of key adviser/decision maker and then blaming him for everything. Cheney's primary job is to sit in the wings and wait for the president to become incapacitated and then take over the job of President of the United States of America.